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CE Week #5: “Nader could be launching third party bid”

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1. on February 26, 2008 at 9:09 pm Matt Pignataro Said:
   

   2000 and 2004 were both losing years for Ralph Nader, but could 2008 be Nader’s year? I highly doubt Nader could be even remotely successful in the presidential election. As this article points out and as Kautzman said in class today, “Nader is still loathed by many Democrats who call him a spoiler.” Barack Obama is one of those Democrats who thinks Nader could play spoiler by drawing votes away from the Democratic party candidate. Kautzman said today that Barack Obama basically begged Ralph Nader to stay out of the race, but Nader didn’t listen I guess. I think if it comes down to Barack Obama and John McCain for president of the United States and Obama loses, there will be finger pointing at Ralph Nader who would likely take away some of Barack Obama’s votes. But when you look at the statistics, Nader only won 2.7 percent of the national vote as the Green Party candidate in 2000 and, in 2004, Nader won just 0.3 percent as an independent. The percent has gone down each time he ran for President, so maybe people are getting sick of Ralph Nader running for President. If I had to make a prediction, I would say Nader gets 0.8 percent of the vote.

2. on February 27, 2008 at 4:40 pm Megan Vertullo Said:
   

   Nader, not exactly a lost cause. I disagree with Matt’s statement that “maybe people are getting sick of Nader running for president”. If people are still voting for him, they all clearly cannot be sick of him. As we learned in class third party candidates hold a truly special place in the elections. They will never win, so they can run a lot, and people might not necessarily get “sick of them”. It does not matter who is running as the third party candidate, but that some one is because they will most likely have some form of effect on the outcome of the elections. I think Nader’s effect on this election could possibly be huge. The conservative vote is up in the air. They won’t vote for McCain, he’s too moderate, Obama, well he’s basically their arch enemy, and then there is Nader. If they really want to prevent Obama from taking office they might vote for him. Who knows where the conservative vote will go. I mean we’ve got Anne Coulter saying she’ll vote for Hillary (if not Hillary, then Barack) so that the liberals can get what they deserve, and most other conservatives don’t really know where their vote will go. Who knows, maybe they’ll give it to Nader, build up his confidence?

3. on February 27, 2008 at 5:53 pm Vanessa Stranahan Said:
   

   Now Nader’s in the race, the Democrats may not have as much of a lead in the general election as they should have. Ralph Nader, with his many liberal stances on issues takes away from the electorate of the Democrats. The far left liberals as we learned in class often trend to be pro environment, instead of pro industry. Unfortunately Nader has ran before, and knows that he has no chance of winning, he has openly admitted that he is only running to address issues that face the country. In past years he has brought many issues up launching environmentalist’s crusade in 2000. Democrats tried to compete with “Global warming King” Al Gore, but didn’t succeed and then followed with trying to get Nader’s name of the ballot. Personally, I think this race is closer than the polls say it will be, especially if Obama gets the nomination. Nader could definitely swing things in a violent new direction for the Democrats. He could draw enough of the votes away from the Democratic Party that the Republican Party could win, as we’ve seen in the election of 2000, and read about in our book when talking about the significance of Third Parties.

4. on February 27, 2008 at 6:18 pm Morgan McDonald Said:
   

   Well, he’s back again and who’s to say that they didn’t see that coming? We know about Ralph Nader’s involvement and the whole scandal of the 2000 election, I say it’s just about time he showed up in this race. It is believed that Nader steered some 2.7 percent votes away from Al Gore which shamelessly gave the Presidency over to Republican George W. Bush in the 2000 election. With all that is going on in this year’s election, I suppose it is only appropriate for Nader to think that he can just step in and try to make it better then he has in the past, although I think he’s only going to get in the way and make I lot of people angry. Nader must think that because the Democrats are taking such a big chance with new candidates and the Republicans don’t even really have a chance with any of their candidates (that is if McCain can make it to his next birthday) that he can stand up against them and have some sort of a chance. We also know that he is not the biggest fan among the Democrats with his involvement in the 2000 election and this could potentially lead to even more trouble. I’m sure that the Democratic Party can only be thinking that Nader will steel their votes again this year and have to be thinking of a way to stop that from happening. Today in class we talked about whether the Democratic Party had the obligation to put Nader’s name on the ballots in the rest of the states. I guess in reality they wouldn’t have to, so we will have to see how Nader runs his campaign if he is not on any ballots. We’ll also have to wait and see how the drama raises as the election gets closer.

5. on February 27, 2008 at 7:33 pm Leslie Larson Said:
   

   After watching the video today in class about Ralph Nader and how he began his political career, I feel more qualified to even talk about Nader. Seeing him get his beginning as “Nader the Crusader” and as a consumer advocate, I really don’t think that guy gets all the credit he deserves. He may have in the past, but I feel people view him more as a joke in today’s political world. I know that the major political parties really don’t get a kick out of the guy – especially the Democrats, but I really do think that he may have something worth saying. For the past probably 3 or 4 presidential elections, my mom has been ranting and raving about Ralph Nader, and I was all, “Yeah…ok…” But now I see why she supports him so much even if it just was to try and keep Bush out of office! Of course some of his stances or issues may be way out in left field, but you got to give the guy props…he hasn’t given up. To see someone have that much perseverance is absolutely amazing. I know he never has and never will stand ANY chance of becoming the nation’s next president but he wants his view out there and that’s why he campaigns. I am still amazed by how someone who you hear so much about and how everybody thinks they’re a little wacked, started out so small and made a huge difference. If it wasn’t for him, half of us wouldn’t be here due to fatal car crashes because of the absence of seatbelts. I say, “Go Ralph!”

6. on February 27, 2008 at 8:12 pm Melissa Natwick Said:
   

   Well we can all see why the Democrats do not want Ralph Nader to run for President. They fear another election of 2000. In the election of 2000, Al Gore lost to George Bush because the Democrats believed that Ralph Nader stole votes away from Gore. Nader ran again in 2004 and now he is doing it again for 2008. Why is Ralph Nader running again? Third party candidates know they cannot win, but they run anyways in order to send a message to the public so the two political parties can put it on their political agenda. So why is Nader running for President once again? Nader promises to fight for “corporate greed, corporate power, corporate control,” but is there another reason? What does Nader really want to accomplish? The Democrats are suspected to win this coming presidential election, and they fear that Nader could screw up their chances to gain the presidency. So if it comes down to Obama and McCain or Clinton and McCain, will Nader influence enough votes away from the Democrats causing McCain to gain the seat in the White House? I do not think so because in the election of 2004, Nader only won 0.3% of the popular vote and most likely it will happen again this coming election. The Democrats are suspected to win the presidency and I honestly do not think that Nader will influence enough votes away from the Democrats to have them lose the election

7. on February 29, 2008 at 9:01 pm Matthieu Curry Said:
   

   I disagree with Matt Pignataro that Ralph Nadar could not be even remotely successful in this election. This is because yes he was blamed for Gore’s loss in 2000 and lost again in 2004, whish already shows a unsuccessful past. However, I do not believe that Nadar views his past as a president for the future. This makes me believe that he understands that he will not win the election, but I do not feel that winning is what he views success in this coming election as. I believe that he wants to take away potential votes from independents that Obama or Hilary Clinton might receive and help the Republican party win. I also believe that he wants to get it out that even though he might be disliked by the Democratic party. That he still has a cause that he is fighting for and that the Democratic party can not silence his voice. For every individual has the right to be heard and that all should have the chance to change legislation and help make America a better place.

8. on March 1, 2008 at 10:26 pm Brittany Urso Said:
   

   The Democratic Party makes Nader out to be a completely horrible person. They have made him out to be such a bad guy because they didn’t win the election in 2000 and are sore losers. The 2000 election was so close between Bush and Gore and the Democrats blame Nader for Gore’s loss. In reality, Nader has worked for the people ever since he was younger trying to make everything safe. Nader isn’t a bad guy, just an easy target for the Democrats.

   I don’t agree with what Matt C. said about Nader being out for sabotage against the Democrats. I think that his main goal is to pass his message rather than steal votes. I also think that if all candidates are on the ballot no one person can be blamed for taking votes from a party. Even though Nader may have more things in common with the Democrats, the voters get to choose who they want as their president. If the voters would rather choose Nader over the other candidates they should be able to. A person who votes for Nader has reasons for not voting for the others and he obviously appeals to them more. Instead of blaming Nader, maybe some of the candidates should listen to his message. Maybe then they would pick up the votes that Nader supposedly stole.

9. on March 1, 2008 at 11:05 pm Matt Pignataro Said:
   

   Nader is still a lost cause. Look at the percent of votes he has received in the past presidential races. Nader only won 2.7 percent of the national vote as the Green Party candidate in 2000 and, in 2004, Nader won just 0.3 percent as an independent. His percent has gone down from 2.7 to 0.3 from one election to the next. I’m not a math genius, but those numbers aren’t going to get you into the White House. I’m still going to say people are sick of Ralph Nader. It’s too late for Nader to make an impact on the election in November. Nader has about eight months to campaign and to try to do some damage. Eight months is not enough if Nader thinks he can impact the election in November. Face it; the odds are against Nader to even receive 1.0 percent of the vote. Yes, Nader has the money to market himself all throughout the United States, but he doesn’t have the momentum as a Barack Obama or John McCain. Ralph Nader will not be a factor come November because it will come down to Barack Obama and John McCain for President of the US. Note to Nader: Stop running.

10. on March 2, 2008 at 12:43 am Trevor Walters Said:
    

    Yes I think Nader is hilarious. It’s so interesting to watch the democrats rebuke Nader so much while the Republicans embrace him with open arms. “Nader the Crusader” is that man to the democrats who shows up to the party but nobody wanted him there. I disagree with Pig in that Nader will have an outcome on the presidential election. Sure he won’t win but he will hose the democrats. And like Kautzman said in class he won’t go away because nobody will completely accept his viewpoints. By staying in the race the consumer freaks of the Democratic Party will stray away from their conventional democratic choice and roll with Nader. I don’t really like McCain or Obama so I’m either going to vote for Nader just out of pity or Harrison Ford because I think that would be really cool. It’s amazing what Nader has done for things like car safety but I think everyone knows that he would be a pretty terrible President. It is fun to watch one man like that make such a difference in America’s businesses but I think that is about as much as we want from him. But in the end Nader is the thorn in the Democrats side and everyone but the liberals loves to watch the drama.

11. on March 2, 2008 at 9:05 am John Maccini Said:
    

    Well this article can certainly be connected with what we talked about in school on Wednesday and the movie, An Unreasonable Man. Of course, it’s even more relevant now that Nader has officially declared himself as running as an independent in all 50 states. Nader could be a big influence on this election. All the democrats who hate Barack or who hate Hillary (depending on who finally comes out on top) will most likely vote for Nader because they won’t want to vote for McCain. There will most likely be a lot more legal battles like those of 2004 to determine if he has enough signatures to get his name on the ballot. I think the number is somewhere around 1,000 signatures from each state to be put on the ballot for that state? Anyway, I think Nader’s biggest chance of pulling away quite a few votes is if Hillary wins the nomination. There are a lot of Clinton haters and a lot of Hillary loathers out there, and from what I’ve seen a lot more than Barack haters. These voters will only have a few choices: 1. Stay home; 2. Vote for an independent party (Nader); or 3. Vote Republican. Most of the voters I think would either stay home or vote independent before they voted Republican, but either way the overall vote is going to be greatly affected if Hillary wins. If Obama wins, I don’t think Nader will have nearly as large of an impact and I think that Obama will make it to the white house.

12. on March 2, 2008 at 9:56 am Nathan Basham Said:
    

    Pig. Pig. Pig. Do you listen, not, in Kautzy’s class? We pretty much all know (or should know) that third party candidates only have a shot once in two blue moons. So why do they run? They run simply to get their issues heard on a national stage. Well Nader would probably want to be President, yet that has never been his role in life. He could have won back in the 70’s or 80’s but he chose not to because he was on a crusade for the John Q. Publics of the United States. Now that he has a lot of his old problems solved he has been working on other things like corporations. However it is not easy to take on corporations in private so he is taking his stance and giving it a voice in the national attention so that one of the parties will take up his stances and then he will concede and go back to the private sector. It’s simple science pig haha. The fact that he got 2.7% of the vote back in 2000 is actually rather astounding to me because there was almost 3% (which doesn’t seem like much) that felt so strongly for Nader and his views that they cast their one vote for him instead of the two massive parties. But you never know.. the third time could be the charm…

13. on March 2, 2008 at 11:28 am Nick McMurray Said:
    

    Response to Matt and Matthieu

    Ralph Nader is loathed by the democrats because they (I don’t know if I’m allowed to say this) screwed themselves in the 2000 election. Al Gore distanced himself from influential democrats that had a lot of democratic backing which caused him to lose. He also was fighting for some different environmental things that scared the voters and caused him to lose his home state of Tennessee and the state of West Virginia. The democrats only blamed Nader after they lost so they didn’t look so stupid for throwing away the election to Bush. I do believe that Nader doesn’t have a viable chance to win the election as a third party candidate. I think he should have the right to run for president though, but I think he is just going to further split the Democratic Party which might give the election to the republicans which would really make the democrats hate Nader even more. Hopefully Obama, not Hillary, will have enough of a strong hold on the voters for him to not be bothered by Nader running for the presidency. One other thing though is that I don’t think Nader would be running for the presidency if he doesn’t believe he has a small chance of getting something done.

14. on March 2, 2008 at 1:26 pm Maggie Wadsworth Said:
    

    That is so weird and out of the blue…I did not know that someone could join the race so late in the game. I don’t know how wise it is of Nader to enter the election so late. Poor Nader, he gets so much crap from everybody. First the whole response to the book, Unsafe at any Speed, he wrote, and then the Democrats, for stealing votes away from Gore and costing him the election, placed the blame on him. But despite all the crap he gets, he has had some pretty good ideas in his lifetime. The video we saw in class was really cool – props to Nader for keeping us safe and inventing seatbelts! Regardless of how stupid of a choice he is making now, he has still saved countless lives…so yay Nader. It will be interesting to see how his presence in the election will affect the race. He obviously cannot win. I am not sure about whom he will take votes from in this election, because each front-runner seems to have a pretty loyal and powerful following. However, it is safe to say that he will certainly be getting lots of media attention what with his late entry and all.

15. on March 2, 2008 at 2:12 pm HiLaRy HaStiNgs Said:
    

    Even has a strong Democrat, I can’t really blame Nader for the complete destruction of the Democratic Party in the election of 2000. Now, if it happens again 8 years later, I may begin to get a little angry. I actually think third parties are fascinating. It actually makes more sense to me to have more then just two parties to choose from. It’s hard for some people to just classify themselves as a Republican or Democrat and I think third parties result from that cross-pressure. Nader is actually an inspirational political figure, if you look past the whole “stolen election” thing. “Nader the crusader”, as I prefer to call him as worked for decades trying to get worthy issues out there. Now, I’m not saying that I’m going to run out there and vote for him, but I think he deserves the same amount of respect that any other third party candidate would ( which Is not much). Nader is smart, because he knows that if you run for president, no matter your chances, people are going to pay some attention to you. This is especially true with Nader due to his track record of running for president 3 times and all.

16. on March 2, 2008 at 2:38 pm Powlesy Said:
    

    I am going to have to go against what Pig is saying in his previous posts. First of all, your first post is pretty obvious. We all know that we have a two party system and anyone not running in one of those two parties, is a very long shot to win any type of majority. From that video we were watching in class we saw that Ralph Nader is a pretty smart guy, therefore I think that he understands that there isn’t much of a chance for him to win the election. I think that he is running more for the issues than for president. Since he is running for president issues that he finds important, he can bring up and make public. Nader also knows that he pulled votes away from the democrats in the past two elections and I am sure he knows that it’s going to happen again, whether it’s a large or small amount of votes, Nader is going to have a pretty good effect on this upcoming election and these effects could really benefit the Republicans. – Matt Powles

17. on March 5, 2008 at 11:34 pm Trevor Walters Said:
    

    I’m with you Pig. Hey Nader will not change much about this year’s election. Obama or Hillary should see this as just another little obstacle. If they are that good of candidates, then they should win well outside of Nader’s little margin. Look at Clinton in ‘92, a little Nader would have done nothing to his campaign. This just goes to show that America really truthfully didn’t want Gore or Kerry or else the whole country would be swinging for them. And with the support Obama has been getting Nader should not even be considered a problem. It’s like a football team playing one man down. Some see it as a challenge. This election should just be seen with the republicans having a 2.7% handicap. That percent is very small in the grand scheme of things. Out of 100% the democrats can’t get as little as 2.7 more? The democratic side is just complaining because if they lose they just have someone to blame it on. I mean does anyone blame Nader for the 04 election now? This is just a poor guy who really wants his views to be appreciated and the democrats kick him around. The democrats are being the mean ones in this election, not Nader.

18. on March 9, 2008 at 1:47 pm Matt Pignataro Said:
    

    Nate, Nate, Nate. I can see that our school’s math department has failed you. Its common math if you really think about it. Nader only won 2.7 percent of the national vote as the Green Party candidate in 2000 and, in 2004, Nader won just 0.3 percent as an independent. Ralph Nader percent has gone down each of the past times he has ran for President. If I had to put money down in Las Vegas, I would say Nader gets 0.01 of the vote. Walts brings up a good point, “Look at Clinton in ‘92, a little Nader would have done nothing to his campaign.” We aren’t going to have another 2000 election either. The odds of that happening again are slim to none. Nader will not have an impact on the November election. All Nader wants is the spotlight so he can get one of his issues out there. He isn’t going to win, so why not advertise some of his ideas to the American public. I would do the same and throw in some ideas as to why I am campaigning. I hope this is the last time we see Ralph Nader running for President because the third time isn’t a charm for him.