CE Week #3: “U.S. Hispanic population is on pace to triple”
Number to reach 438 million by 2050, study says
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N.C. Aizenman
Washington Post
February 12, 2008
The number of Hispanics in the United States will triple by 2050 and represent nearly 30 percent of the population if trends continue, according to a report released Monday.
The study by the nonpartisan, Washington-based Pew Research Center also found that nearly one in five Americans will be foreign-born in 2050, compared with about one in eight today. Asian-Americans, representing 5 percent of the population today, are expected to boost their share to 9 percent.
Blacks are projected to maintain their current 13 percent share. Non-Hispanic whites will still be the nation’s largest group, but they will drop from 67 percent of U.S. residents to 47 percent.
Overall, the U.S. population will increase by 47 percent from 296 million in 2005 to 438 million by 2050, with newly arriving immigrants accounting for 47 percent of the rise, and their U.S.-born children and grandchildren 35 percent.
The report offers a picture of the possible long-term effects of the immigration surge that began after 1965, when Congress ended a quota system that had nearly eliminated immigration from non-European countries since the 1920s.
Because of a declining birthrate among U.S.-born women, immigrants and their U.S.-born children and grandchildren already account for most of the population increase over the last several decades. The study projects that by 2025, the foreign-born share of the population will surpass the peak recorded during the wave of immigration between 1860 and 1920, when foreign-born residents represented as much as 15 percent of the U.S. population.
But the study’s authors said immigration will do little to offset the more than doubling of the nation’s elderly population as baby boomers age. By 2050, people older than 65 will make up 19 percent of the population, compared with 12 percent in 2005, while the share of working-age people will shrink from 63 percent to 58 percent.
Today, there are about 59 children or elderly people per 100 working-age adults. By 2050, that figure will increase to 72 dependents per 100 working-age adults.
Those who oppose allowing immigration to continue at its current pace interpreted the findings as vindication.
“These numbers underline the fact that immigration is not a solution to the aging of the population,” said Mark Krikorian, of the Center for Immigration Studies, which favors further limits on immigration.
The study’s authors noted that even if their projections are accurate, the implications may be different by 2050: Given the high rate of intermarriage between Latinos and members of other ethnic groups, many descendants of today’s Latinos may not even identify as such.
NC – Connection?
The United States is growing at a pretty fast rate, in only about 42 years there will be more than 100 million more people running around the United States, that does not put us anywhere close to China’s numbers, but will this overcrowd the United States? In class we talked about the presidential candidates and their different immigration policies, but I wonder will a new immigration policy proposed by any candidate cut the number of people that will immigrate to the United States? The Hispanic number of people tripling is insane, eventually the Hispanics will over run the Caucasian people, and then whites will become the minority, is that a crazy thought or could it actually happen? The other races mentioned, Asian American, Blacks, and Caucasians, all relatively stay right around the same number projected for 2050 so by showing that the Hispanic race will triple, does that not show that we have an immigration problem? I hope that the candidates still running will address the rise in Hispanics and give us a way in which they will stop the rising number of immigrants from coming into the Untied States. Its funny how we can always relate issues back to the presidential race, and how that certain issue will affect the outcome of the race.
This may seem like a bit of a tangent, but we recently learned about SOP’s from our reading and discussions in class. Out of curiosity, would all these people change those? Wouldn’t it be a tough problem to keep things as they are, and not have to change them for the immigrants, if, of course, we let them stay here?
Again, out of sheer curiosity, I looked up some Standard Operating Procedures and stumbled on this interesting website. (It’s a pdf file, just so you know) https://www.usfa.dhs.gov/downloads/pdf/publications/fa-197-508.pdf
In beginning the reading, it sounds pretty easy and self explanatory, right? Well, I got to thinking…
Wouldn’t we have to change our SOP’s to adjust to the immigrants? Would they not exclude anyone who didn’t know English? Would these SOP’s have to be adjusted to ways that immigrants would be comfortable with?
I know I’m just focusing on the whole illegal immigrant thing, but think about it.
I’m just throwing stuff out there, go ahead and tear me apart if you so choose, it’s what I’m here for.
One is five, wow that’s like the number of dentists that don’t recommend trident gum. Why is there such and increase in minority population? Like we talked about in the beginning of the year, America is a salad bowl of diverse demographics. It is very plausible that the statistics given in the article are true. The Caucasian race is slowly becoming a minority, and eventually we are going to fall back into a minority majority. The article hinted, at the end, that there is a lot of intermarriage between Latinos and other ethnic groups. I think that eventually by 2050 that intermarriage will be common among American’s. It’s not to say that it would be a bad thing, but there are so many immigrants coming into America that it is inevitable. The Latino population, from down south and Cuba, are heavily out weighing the majority. With the Latino population increasing so rapidly, the African American population staying steady, and the Asian-American population increasing slightly, I believe that Latinos will be the majority in the near future. This poses a question. Will Congress than declare Spanish the national language? There are so many things that will change in the next few decades. It is hard to predict exactly what the countries demography will look like. I mean we can’t even predict who are next presidential nominees are, so how in the world are we supposed to predict anything else?
It’s quite amazing to see that by the year 2050, the white group of people in the U.S. will not have an overall majority on other races. Instead, we will become the minority majority, and the U.S. will no longer have a majority ethnicity at all. It’s really hard to think that this is possible; as I look around the city and society I live in, and don’t see many other people than whites. I occasionally see a few African Americans, and some Hispanics, but nothing as to what these studies are saying. This will overall affect our bureaucracy and the people in it. This is going to leave the people of our country with no choice, but to elect those people, whether they are Hispanics or African Americans, to our bureaucracy. I also think that this is going to affect the way the votes come out, and we may possibly start seeing people in our government that aren’t the typical rich, old, white men. This may be hard to think of right now, as we live in a 67% white based country, but almost 50 years from now, we aren’t going to be the big bad group we used to be.
Throughout history the US has always been an immigrant society and I think that it will continue to be one in the future. This new study just continues to prove that fact. Due to our long history of immigration, as we learned earlier in the year, the US is considered a melting pot (or salad bowl as Mr. Kautzman put it). This refers to the US’s mixture of cultures, ideas, and peoples. Our own culture has been created and is changing as a result of what this study found, that the Hispanic and other immigrant populations are increasing and will continue to do so. You can see the culture changes that a larger portion of Hispanics have had on our society. For my Mom, who grew up in Southern California, this meant that Spanish was the predominate language, one she had to learn, and that the Hispanics were the majority. I think that for us in Spokane we really do not see these effects quite as much as someone living in California does.
Another thing that I found really interesting was that this study said that Hispanics would not be the minority-majority in 2050, like many others have said. I was slightly surprised; however, I would think that since they did say that non-Hispanic whites would drop to being 47% of the population that it would not be very long before the United States was a minority majority of Hispanics. I really think it is ridiculous though for people against immigration to use this as vindication for their views. Honestly, the US has always been an immigration nation so it only seems natural that the majority population would change with the tide of immigrants.
Lindsey Devaney
It doesn’t surprise me that non-Hispanic population will decrease and the Hispanic population will increase. America is known as the melting pot, a mixture of cultures, ideas, people, and it is predicted that America will have a minority majority or that America will cease to have a white majority. Also there are already 12 million illegal immigrants in the United States and it will continue to grow. Just imagine how much America will change. Our government will be more diverse than the traditional rich, white man government. The diversity in the government will influence different areas of policy. I think that there will be stronger enforcement of civil rights such as affirmative action and equal rights. With the population increasing and becoming more diverse, will this change our national language? Will we have to speak Spanish if Hispanics become the minority majority or will we have to become bilingual? Just imagine how much communication will change in the future. Will we have to speak Spanish in public, but speak English in our homes or vice versa? In 2050, our country will be completely different when it comes to diversity. Our government will be diverse, the public will be diverse. We will probably have to say goodbye to the traditional government.
Ok our anti-spam word “bounceout57?” that sounds like some little girls msn screen name in like 4th grade (just had to point that out).
I’m sorry but I’m not for the inordinate amount of immigration we have to the United States. It isn’t the legal immigration that I have a problem with; it’s the illegal immigration that causes such a problem. Sure they say that there will be an increase in Hispanics but how many were legal when they got here? They are having babies which make their children legal citizens and deporting them is not an option. So of course we are going to have a huge increase in Hispanics by 2050. Discussed earlier in the year, they are the minority majority and will grow to become the majority. I guess when I live in the age of a predominantly white population it is somewhat hard to imagine it any other way. A main concern is our social security system. I’m not quite sure how it will affect it, but it seems that adding more people isn’t the resolution. Even in the age of the baby boomers it is going to be hard to retire. So if we get a surge of Hispanics or any immigrants it is going to throw off our system. I guess knowing there will be such a growth in the future and not knowing how it will affect the system poses worries for me since I will want to retire sometime before I die.
-Caitlin Barschig
NC – Connection
I think that this passage brings up some very interesting points… The point that there is a problem with the amount of people that the united states, but I think that by trying to limit then amount we are just going to have the problem that we are facing now but at a much high rate. “These numbers underline the fact that immigration is not a solution to the aging of the population,” said Mark Krikorian, of the Center for Immigration Studies, I think that everyone knows the problem but no one knows how to fix it… The facts in this passage were very telling. They made it very clear that there was going to be a very huge increase in the population, but to me it seems that there is enough land to subside to the amount of people and as long as all most there or at lest most of these people are people who work hard and contribute to our county it will all be ok.. I think that if these people don’t help out our society and are just living off welfare then I don’t think that this is going to work and we will need to find some solution to this problem…
NC – Connection
Well it looks like I need to start popping out the babies now, and make sure I live to a hundred. Personally, the color, culture, or background of the people living in the US does not matter. I think having a minority majority would actually be pretty awesome. I was actually taken back by how much the recent studies vary from the ones we have read in our book. Like the article says “non- Hispanic” whites are still going to be in the majority by 2050. I don’t think that is the problem. It is the population increase itself that is going to offer a challenge. I am interested to see how the population density changes in the next 50 years, Ill keep my fingers crossed I can make it… one can only hope. If the Hispanic population triples, well good for them. We just need to make sure that immigrants and their children get a fair shot at life, especially when it comes to educational opportunities. There is no doubt, things are definitely changing, its just important we keep the way of life in the US at a high quality. And we can probably start with a stable economy.
I have to say that the thing that interests me the most about all of this isn’t really the whole minority majority thing. What interests me is the political outcome following the increase of immigrants. Since the Hispanic vote usually leans Republican I wonder if the growing numbers of Mexican immigrants will affect our country politically more than socially. This could cause another political shift, assuming that we maybe will lean democratic for a while (but who knows about that).
Also I don’t think over population in the US is going to be a problem any time soon I mean places like China are so jammed pack and they just keep getting more crowded. I really don’t think America will get like that for quite sometime. Some cities like New York are extremely crowded but the country as a whole isn’t really at all. I have to say though that if the immigration population keeps increasing America may truly become the melting pot of the world (and not a “salad bowl”). Who knows though, the world is constantly changing… I for one wouldn’t make any bets about the future.
Mallory Brown
I found this article interesting that it mentioned that the Hispanics would not be the minority-majority by 2050, but that the non-Hispanics would drop their percentage of the population. We learned earlier in the year about how all different cultures mixed together in our country and that within the next few decades the Caucasian population would begin to decrease and become a minority while the Hispanic population would continue to increase drastically and become a majority. I think this idea seems to scare people, mostly from our region, or maybe just our high school, because they don’t know anything different than what they are, they think that their lives will be completely changed if they happen to be a “minority”. I think people envision our whole country changing drastically in that everyone will be speaking Spanish and that home life may be different. And although I know this is true for many areas across the country already, I honestly don’t think that our society is going to completely flip around and be noticeably different. People may just need to accept the fact that there may be some more forms of culture and traditions and diversity. I happen to think that it would be great if there could be diversity and something different about our country. That could just be the fact that I don’t live around any diversity or culture and crave it and wish everyone could see how different the world is instead of being stuck in their own worlds and just realize that there is so much more out there than Spokane, Washington.
This is definitely a startling survey… One of the few facts I remember about demography is the predicted minority majority by 2060. Now I am really bad at related rates problems (ask Ms. Mockel) so I can’t tell if this newer study proves otherwise. I do however have a pretty firm understanding on what are characteristics of stereotyped democrats and stereotyped republicans. With the imminent rapid growth in our minority population, specifically our Hispanic population, it seems our country will go strongly democrat. As minorities- as well as citizens of low socioeconomic stature- typically lean democrat I believe a democratic era would be firmly in place. It seems even now with the United States dissatisfied with in a war and the public turning to the government to solve every little worry and fret that it has, the Caucasian majority is too afraid of the government to grant it more power by voting democrat. Since the minority population typically increases at a far quicker rate than the majority (Caucasian) population, once the majority population begins it will never again be challenged or rivaled. As a country that has thrived itself on being built by immigrants it will be curious to see the clash of differences within a country that has a strong ties to its European heritage and the equally strong culture of Hispanics.
I’m a little shocked at the undercurrent of fear in Alyssa, Brynna, and Cody’s posts. You all seem threatened by the prospect of a significant Hispanic population in the United States. You think it would disrupt the entire order of our country if whites suddenly weren’t in power. You may not readily claim that perspective, but I can read it between your lines about changing everything for a wave of foreigners. Consider, for a moment, what it must be like to grow up as a non-white American. And since I wouldn’t be so shocked if you all share that xenophobic idea that children of immigrants (especially those pesky non-white races who come here to take our jobs and undermine our culture) aren’t true Americans, lets take an example from that cadre of migrants who did not chose the U.S. over their homeland. Imagine growing up African-American, perhaps not identifying as such due to the suffering you and your ancestors incurred at the hands of Americans, but a person of darker skin nonetheless. 95% of the people you see in power have light skin. The people who live in the nicest neighborhoods and earn the most money are of unfailingly European in descent. The majority of the characters in every book you read from birth are white. Even Band-AIDs are the color of someone else’s skin. We as white people have everything set up for us, so we fail to realize that those who aren’t in the same place have a significantly different outlook on life. I can’t say this with any conviction, but I surmise that the instinctive response white people have to a large influx of Hispanics may be similar to the way non-white Americans view white people. The obvious difference is that whites are now in power and non-whites are currently disenfranchised. Looking toward 2050, we might anticipate an age with more Hispanics in power and whites somewhat disenfranchised. Consider the possibility that as whites of substantial privilege, we are afraid of a time when that established order might not exist. On a more humorous note, it may be prudent to recall that the women’s suffrage took centuries to accomplish because it would upset the traditional order and “the family” would degenerate. Well, I’ll be voting in November, I can own my own property, and if I choose to get married (which I am under no social obligation to do) I don’t have to lose my identity to my husband. All of that, and I don’t see society falling apart as a result.
The title of this article was very misleading. It reads “U.S. Hispanic population is on pace to triple” and then follows with “number to reach 438 million by 2050.” After reading that I was shocked realizing that we just reached 300 million as a whole country and the thought of just our Hispanic population reaching 438 was “mind-bottling” (you know when your thoughts get so crazy it’s like they’re trapped in a bottle) Then as I read on I soon came to the realization and disappointment that it’s actually the country’s population as a whole that will be reaching 438 million. I was not surprised by the statistic of African-American population remaining about the same considering that we discussed in class that they have remained proportional in the past decades.
Back to the Hispanics, I can’t even begin to imagine what kind of ways the immigrants, legal and illegal, are going to have on our country in the coming years. Our culture is sometimes referred to as a melting pot and other refer to it as a salad bowl. I think we need to at least find a way to slow down illegal immigration because a salad only tastes good with a equally proportional amount of vegetables and such. If you add too many tomatoes or whatever you like in your salad it won’t taste as great.
NC – Proof Read/ Spelling
Jeez that is a lot of people. But I guess im not that surprised because our country has also been known as the melting pot of the world. The immigration boom really took off in the 60’s when Congress ended the quota system which put limits on immigration.We have talked about the whole topic of immigration and more importantly the impact it will have on politics. Because of the huge surge of immigrants in the last few decades and also considering the fact the trend will continue, soon the minority will become the majority. That will be a huge deal in many ways. The one that we have talked about a lot is the fact that polotics could change a lot once the minority has equal or more say the to days current majority. The issue of politics will shift and we will also see a lot of new and diverse faces in the house, senate, and other local political positions. I think this could be could because the groups of people that are a fairly significant portion of society get not very much say at all because they don’t have enough people to get similair people into office. So I think that these groups of people could get a better say in government and be equally representative.
I think that this article predicts some very accurate statistics; however, I do not feel that the effects of such will be as drastic by 2050 as some are questioning. Ultimately, I do not feel that our country’s national language is soon to be Spanish. In the least racist terms I can put it, it’s seems highly unlikely that our nation (founded by English men) and based upon a Constitution written in English, will find themselves an “English as a second language” country.
True, our giant salad bowl of people is getting more ingredients mixed in every day (some more than others) and it is hard to say what will have undergone change in 40 years. I do believe that our legislation and policy making will have taken a bit of a different turn, and with the record number of Hispanic voters out these past few weeks, who knows what the Demographic make up of Washington lawmakers will be within 10-20 years. Not to mention, the upcoming Presidential election encompasses the possibility of hiring for the first time (as we all know) a “minority” President of some sort… making way for a more “equal” legislation plan.
What is most interesting to me is how the next administration will address the issue of illegal immigration… if something takes real effect, that minority majority could be nearer or farther than we are predicting. Ultimately, I think that it will come down to a plan that allows for these illegals to become contributing citizens of our society quicker than applying for a regular citizenship.
Cody, I find your shock over the idea of Hispanics becoming a majority a bit disgusting. Not only that but your suggestion that because of this we should limit Hispanic immigration… First you insinuate, implicate and pretty much flat out say that America should be a white majority. It is indeed “crazy” if the whites are the minority. You then state that it is a problem with rising number of Hispanics in our country. I ask why exactly it is a problem that there is a rising number of any particular race in this country. I get that overpopulation is a problem but why is it a bad thing that the people overpopulating our country happen to be of a particular race? The answer, it isn’t. I also find it hilarious that you are suggesting we decrease legal immigration in this country. You know what that will do? Increased illegal immigration, which I am sure you have a problem with.
Mallory said: The Hispanic vote goes to Republicans. The Hispanic vote doesn’t lead Republican it goes overwhelmingly to the Democrats. Perhaps it was a typo…
Anthony, you compared people too tomatoes. They are not tomatoes. And the salad bowl analogy isn’t about how the country tastes, its about the make up. You pretty much said that you wouldn’t like this country if there were too many of one race. Except if there were too many white people apparently you are okay with that.
I have to disagree with you Grace. I do think that Alyssa, Brynna, and Cody might be a little on the protective and scared side, but not to the point that you put it. I think that the United States is very generous on the amount of people that they let enter the country legally every year. If you look at it there are numerous countries in the world that let no immigrants into the country. I also think though that if our population grows by half of what it is today that we might have some major problems for jobs in our country. I don’t think that Alyssa, Brynna, and Cody are afraid of having a majority of Hispanics, I think that they are afraid of foreign born children coming into our country and taking the jobs from the children that are born in the United States. I also have to disagree with you Cody that the new presidential candidate needs to find a way to stop immigration, because the fact is we can’t. Where there’s a will there’s a way and that completely applies to our neighbors to the south. The thing that our new president needs to do is find some sort of way to create work visas so that the Hispanic population can come to our country for a set period of time. That way we don’t loose the help we currently need. To add to that though I think that it would be a good idea if the people that were allowed to enter the country and work, the people that did a good job (nothing illegal), should have priority when applying to become a citizen of the US.
Re: Alyssa
It is hard for me to put my finger on what the thesis of your post is, but I disagree with much of what you said. You say, “eventually by 2050 intermarriage will be common among Americans”; however, it already is pretty common as the article indicated at the end. Part of why we don’t see a whole lot of that where we live is that 90% of the population is Spokane is white (http://www.hellospokane.com/Census.Cfm). Obviously in areas of higher racial diversity, there is a much higher probability of intermarriage, especially as traditional race barriers break down. Also, you say that the inevitable increase of intermarriage is because “so many immigrants are coming into America.” But I would like to point out that high birth rates among Hispanics contribute greatly to that as well.
You also say that “Latinos will be the majority in the near future.” While I agree that a Hispanic majority is very possible, I do not think it will occur in the “near future.” The article projects that in 2050 America will be 47% white and 30% Hispanic. If we were to assume that the same rates would continue past 2050, the Hispanic population wouldn’t pull even with the white population until about 2083. That doesn’t seem like the “near future.” Even when that time comes, Congress won’t declare Spanish the national language, although it is possible that we could have two national languages like Canada does. Also, I think it is a false analogy comparing demographic analysis to presidential nominees. Predictions of presidential nominees made from polls of opinions by magazines and newspapers, while populations are determined by statistics that are taken over a long period of time by scientists who put more than a few hours or days into acquiring and publishing the results of their findings.
No no no, my dear. You made an assumption that is quite incorrect.
There is no “undercurrent” of fear in my post, I really have no fear on the subject whatsoever.
I was just asking some questions, wondering if we would have to change things around if we end up just like the article states. I never, in looking at my post, mentioned anything along the line of fear, my good friend.
Also, in reading Ian’s post, again, I must state an incorrect assumption. I am not “afraid of foreign born children coming into our country and taking the jobs from the children that are born in the United States.” In fact, I do believe I never mentioned a thing about jobs, I was asking questions about SOP’s. I have no idea where you got that from my post. In fact, did I not say this? “Would they not exclude anyone who didn’t know English?” I was concerned because if we didn’t change our SOP’s, wouldn’t they exclude people without English as a first/second language? In using that specific word, exclude, I am sympathizing with the immigrants who are here. I actually have a couple immigrant friends that used to live in Portland in my neighborhood, believe it or not. If I was “afraid”, I would have stopped talking to them and/or been rather cold in their direction. Anyway.
I also have a question of Derrick…
This may sound kind of, well..oh nevermind.
Why must you be so nasty when posting? Just as a question. I’ve read a couple of your posts (One of which was aimed at me, a while ago) and they never seem to really contribute much except lashing out at people and rubbing it in their faces that you might know a little more than they do. Things like “Cody, I find your shock over the idea of Hispanics becoming a majority a bit disgusting.” and “You pretty much said that you wouldn’t like this country if there were too many of one race. Except if there were too many white people apparently you are okay with that.” seem a little rude…
I don’t know, might just be me.
Manifest Destiny
So Lindsey Devaney, you said these words: “I really think it is ridiculous though for people against immigration to use this as vindication for their views.” Why do you think that Americans use statistics like these to increase immigration deportation? Americans are greedy jerks. We realize that one day America might be over run by dishwashing immigrants. Would you desire to have those people running our country? I don’t agree with what I just said, but let’s look at the possibilities of why Americans wish to deport the massive amounts of immigrants from “our country.” If you remember AP US History (which I assume you do), we learned something known as Manifest Destiny. That as Americans it was our “destiny” (right) to control what America is today. Who did we take it from? Some Russians, French, English, but we also took a vast majority of the Southern and Southwestern parts of America from the Spaniards/Mexicans. Why in the world would we want to give that area back to the people we stole it from? I sense a fear among Americans in allowing the Hispanic population growing to 30% of the entire population. Not because they will take our jobs, but rather because they will take it over and “steal” it and control it as there own. This whole philosophy of feeling that we might lose something when the cushion goes away has been around for centuries. It tracks all the back to biblical times with Joseph and his brothers. When Jacob died, the ten brothers were afraid that now Joseph would punish them because Jacob could not stop him from doing anything to them. I think that’s what we are afraid of with the whole idea having a minority-majority (which honestly doesn’t make sense when you look at it…how we can we have a minority that’s in the majority? Wouldn’t they just be the majority?) because, let’s face it we haven’t treated minorities justly, and now with them exceeding the non-Hispanic white population in 2050, or sooner, there is a growing fear that they will pay us back for our transgressions. So Lindsey, when it comes down to the roots, it’s really not ridiculous that people use these statistics as justification for minority deportation.
Danny Porter
Ok so first…yes the numbers of immigrants coming in this country are growing at an extreme rate but secondly I don’t get what Cody means by “is that anywhere near to China’s numbers”. I’m not sure if it means there are many Mexicans migrating to China or if you mean that the Asian population is growing in America… if that’s what you mean their immigration numbers are far lower than the Hispanics. More than half the Asians you see your tourists (SMILE!). Immigration is such a hot topic that all the candidates have to take strong stances on it, or try not to take stances on it at all. If a candidate takes a strong stance on it and they get elected they could try and say that it is their mandate. By mandate I mean that they can say the American people elected them because of their stance on this and that they have an obligation to fulfill this mandate. I also don’t agree with Cody saying that in time the Hispanic population will over run the Caucasians. Their population will never exceed ours. When we talked in class about at some point in time having minority majority it meant that if you add all the minority groups together (blacks, Hispanics, Asian, ect.) that population will exceed the Caucasian population. The Mexicans alone will never be about to run all over us. And hopefully if we get a President with a strong stance on immigration we can control the illegal immigrants who enter our country everyday because we obviously can not go on with the simple border patrols and restrictions we have today. Either way the Hispanic population is growing out of control and I don’t doubt that by 2050 it will have tripled in numbers.
Response to Chelsea.
The numbers are not that drastic. I feel it is true by then we will be the minority. Look at the NBA. They are predicting the same thing that by 2030 or so over like 60 percent of the league will be foriegn born players. With all the people imigrating to our country it will be difficult for all of them to learn our language. I do not know how many countries speak English but I can only imagine that more countries speak Spanish or something very similar. And has you probably have figured taking Spanish classes it is not a very difficult language to learn. It is a lot easier to learn that than it is to learn English. I remember reading about the Senator of Arizona making the law of no illegal immigrants working in the state, and if they do the business will be shut down. What happened with this? How is it working? And with all the migrants coming to our country, will more states have to take on this law to keep the workers in America legal?
I kind of disagree with Anthony a little tiny bit. Even though I definitely see his point, I don’t think that we really have to slow down immigration or the multiplication of Hispanics in the United States, because like everyone has been saying, America is a melting pot or a salad bowl. This is how America is supposed to be. We are supposed to be open to others coming to live here. If the melting pot or the salad bowl is made up of a majority of a certain race, then it’s not much of a melting pot is it? I think it’s really exciting to have people from different cultures here. It is like what we were talking about in class. If you really look at the context, it makes ton of sense why Mexicans or any immigrants for that matter would want to come live and/or work here. If Canada offered ten dollars more per hour, and had a ton of better opportunities, then a butt-load of people would pack up that same day and live there. Would we really want them to close the border, or demand that we become citizens and speak their language? I’m pretty sure we wouldn’t want that. We would want that extra cash and those awesome opportunities to be as easily and readily attainable as possible…am I right?
Mallory – The Hispanic vote doesn’t lean Republican. It leans Democrat. Moving on.
I would like to ask Morgan about her theories and ideas on this country’s diversity. She said: “I happen to think that it would be great if there could be diversity and something different about our country.” Well I happen to think that our country is already Mr. Kautzman’s Salad Bowl. We are actually really diverse as it is right now. And earlier in the year we did talk about the difference between a salad and being in the melting pot: in a salad, while all the pieces are mixed and thrown together, they are still separate. In a melting pot, everything is melded, indistinguishable from each other. We are diverse, like the salad. She also said: “People may just need to accept the fact that there may be some more forms of culture and traditions and diversity,” and I think that people have accepted this. If you haven’t noticed, many cities and towns sport major cultural diversities, depending on who lives there. And there will always be the people in the extreme background that don’t want any diversity at all. But could it not also be argued that the scenario could swing the other way? What happens when non-Hispanic whites become the minority in this country? Will there not be those in the majority that think we should not be here any longer? Morgan was right, however, in that Spokane, WA could be one of the least diverse cities around, but it is not uncommon knowledge that our country is already vastly diverse. If you want a quick look at this, just go to Yakima.
~Liz
I think that it is really interesting how many people seem to have a problem with the fact that in the future Caucasians may not be in the majority. I want to know why that matters. I mean seriously, its not as if all whites in the US are united in there views anyway. Who cares if some other group out numbers “us”, its not like all whites in the US vote together on any singular issue, much less all the issues. I fear now its going to become an “us” and “them” situation, which I think is totally unnecessary. Why can’t we coexist? The US has always been an immigrant nation, and there is absolutely no reason for it not to continue as one.
Chad while I agree with you that this could cause a change in the make up of our government, both the bureaucracies and the elected officials, contrary to your post which said that “This is going to leave the people of our country with no choice, but to elect those people, whether they are Hispanics or African Americans, to our bureaucracy,” the US bureaucracy is not elected, it is hired based upon aptitude, except for those plum book appointments who the president gets to pick.
Cody in your post is the following, “by showing that the Hispanic race will triple, does that not show that we have an immigration problem?” I was just wondering why a tripled population is a problem, is there some reason that Hispanics shouldn’t grow just because most of the other groups are no longer developing at a fast rate? Isn’t the whole reason we have always needed immigrants to avoid stagnancy?
To answer your question Alyssa; no congress will not declare Spanish our national language. I can almost guaranty this based on the fact that Congress never made English our national language, so there is nothing to change. Individual states might, currently some 25 have English as an official language and Hawaii has both Hawaiian and English. Spanish may eventually become our de facto national language (that is the one most people use), but I doubt it.
Andrew Barnes
Response to Grace
On a side note: Jarek I do not know how you managed to focus this topic on the results of the NBA turnout, but you did so… congrats!
I would have to disagree with Grace. It sounds like you are putting words into people’s mouths to get your point across. “You think it would disrupt the entire order of our country if whites suddenly weren’t in power. You may not readily claim that perspective, but I can read it between your lines about changing everything for a wave of foreigners.” I understand where you may be coming from, but I also see what they are trying to say. The population changes are likely to take a huge effect in the alteration of the way America runs things. We have to adapt to changes and ultimately race and immigration are going to become even bigger topics if they are not already. Many people have this perspective of America as a white dominated race, and it is true for now. It is going to be interesting to see how we react to the minority of Caucasians. Everything is going to be taken into consideration. How we manage illegal immigration will become an even greater concern. I do not have a problem with Mexican’s in America, especially since many people think I am one myself. I do think that in order to maintain such a great nation we need to become more organized on how we adapt to new conditions. With life expectancy rates growing and children being born by the bushels every hour the U.S. is going to become one busy mixing pot.
So, okay… I understand that this can be seen as getting what we deserve by some, because our European ancestors did come in and take this country, but I’m not going to say that I think its necessarily a good thing that caucasians will soon be the minority in the United States. And I know that we’re a mixing pot of culture, which is cool, and that is what makes the United States the United States, and I don’t want to lose that and I’m not saying that we should rid ourselves of all other races, but I do see it becoming a problem. So, I guess that mostly, this is a response to Grace. Say you moved to Mexico, just for an example. Would you learn their language? Or would you expect everyone else to understand you and work around the language barrier? I mean, that is one of the huge problems I see. I just got home from Bellevue and honestly, you hardly hear English anymore. Which, really, is pretty cool, I love just walking around and listening to other people (Russians, Chinese, Indians, etc.) but, when it comes time to ask someone a question, or even polietly saying “excuse me” no one understands you. You can’t deny that this country was built by people of European descent, so doesn’t it make sense for the people in power to be European? Its not like we’re still denying citizens (citizens being the key word) of other descents anything (at least legally). I mean, if all the sudden a whole bunch of Europeans immigrated to India, you wouldn’t expect them to demand positions of power. We do have people of all races in power here, we’re a country of opportunity for anyone who is willing to work for it. We’ve talked in class about how the government is run by the elites, those who know the most, those who are the most qualified, and I do think it will continue to be run by the elites whether they be black, white, yellow, red, brown, whatever. But the elites are not really the concern, because we’re not going to put someone in office who only speaks Spanish or Chinese. I strayed quite far from topic, but I guess my point was, that why should people be ashamed that they might be afraid of our country being changed? I mean, the United States wasn’t founded by hispanics, and the majority has always been caucasian, a lot will change by 2050, we’ll be catering to their needs, like Bryanna pointed out, what will we do about the language barrier? It will cause a lot of problems.
True Maggie, America is a melting pot…or a salad bowl…whichever you feel better describes our country and the people who represent it. And that means that lots of people of different ethnicities and cultural backgrounds need to make up our population. It’s great that people want to come to our country because we have such great opportunities for those that are not as fortunate as ourselves, but why can’t they just make it simpler for themselves and all of the other people working in the U.S. trying to control the immigration problem and come to the United States legally. I don’t think we need to slow down immigration from Mexico as long as it is legal. Also, you’re right, if Canada had better opportunities than us and I moved North then I would not want them to make it difficult for me to jump on those chances at a better life. But what about everyone else that already lives there? It’s frustrating trying to communicate with someone who doesn’t even speak the same language. I should know, since my father hired workers for his construction company when we lived in California. Many of which we eventually found out were illegal but there is really nothing you can do about it. And that’s all I have to say about that.
Response to all:
More diverse America by 2050? White population no longer dominate? Good! The whole “white America” thing was starting to get old anyways, now we will be a new America, no longer white but maybe slightly tanish, yeah “slightly tanish America” I can live with that, well its not like I have a choice. But when it comes to this issue I don’t see the disadvantages that people are pointing out. For one, I believe America could use the culture shock, despite more equality all around, us Americans are still amazingly ignorant and xenophobic, minorities are still usually separate in this country, white suburbs, black and Mexican ghettos and china towns, that right there is still evidence that our culture isn’t for the whole “mixing thing.” In all seriousness people, the whole salad bowl, mixing pot, mixture of ideas and cultures doesn’t exist here. The best way I would describe it is a bunch of cultures that share the same space but ultimately want nothing to do with each other and keep to themselves, and because we label ourselves as the first ones here and are proud of it we feel we need to protect that, that’s why every major immigration is met with opposition, whether its legal or not. The problems that we apparently will face with increased immigration… those can be fixed… it’s amazing what this country can accomplish when it’s desperate
Response to Cody Castor:
Why do you consider it a “crazy thought” that whites will become the minority in the United States? Globally, Caucasians are already the minority.
Also, you can’t contribute the Hispanic population growth entirely to immigration. Traditionally, Hispanics have larger families than Caucasians (Hispanics on average have 4-6 children where whites have an average of 2-3). I disagree with you that a reform in immigration needs to be addressed to stop this. Personally, I don’t really think it needs to be stopped. The concept of limiting immigration yearly has always baffled me. I don’t think any person should have more right to live here than anyone else. As long as they’re not disturbing anyone else, I think people have a natural born right to inhabit whichever country they wish (It’s a very Locklian way of thinking). Also, if you’re worried about population growth causing over crowding, we have plenty of room in this country.
My uncle, who is a mathematician, and I were discussing population growth one day and he calculated that you could fit every inhabitant of the United States in the state of Texas with 100 (I think… but that sounds big, anyway, everyone can fit in Texas) feet of space in every direction for each person.
“It’s really hard to think that this is possible; as I look around the city and society I live in, and don’t see many other people than whites.”
Chad, your point is a good one. Let me explain; the whole thing about a Caucasian minority is basically factoring in plain numbers. In the ENTIRE United States, Caucasians are projected to become the minority. However, there will still be regions and cities like Spokane, for example that will still likely have a Caucasian majority. All the study is saying is that based off of numbers, whites will become a minority.
“With the population increasing and becoming more diverse, will this change our national language? Will we have to speak Spanish if Hispanics become the minority majority or will we have to become bilingual? Just imagine how much communication will change in the future. Will we have to speak Spanish in public, but speak English in our homes or vice versa?”
Melissa, we don’t have an official national language, and I don’t think we will ever. However, we may have to become more bilingual…not that Southern California isn’t already. We will be able to speak both Spanish and English at home and/or in the public.
“I think we need to at least find a way to slow down illegal immigration because a salad only tastes good with a equally proportional amount of vegetables and such. If you add too many tomatoes or whatever you like in your salad it won’t taste as great.”
Anthony – that was awesome. A good point too! (Although any salad tastes good)
-Jason Wong
I am sorry if you find my posting nasty. I do not. If you read further Francis Dinger and Andrew Barnes and many others posted literally the same thing as me. Perhaps their tone was less confrontational but, I find my responses appropriate. Kautzman tells us to post a response to someone that we disagree with. Normally when I disagree with someone I find something that actually riles me up a bit. Racism and xenophobia rile me up. I did find Cody’s shock over the fact that being white a majority as racism and xenophobia. I am surprised at the amount of racial bigotry on this topic. I agree with everything, Grace, Andrew and Frances said. After reading some of the other responses to my responses I found that most people tended to agree with my train of thinking on the racial make up of this country, not yours or Cody’s. I am sorry if you felt attacked by any my posts, I am not attacking you, I am attacking your thoughts, ideas, and posts. When I say I am disgusted with a statement, its because I am a disgusted with a statement. I will not apologize for opposing anyone’s view points.
I already posted tonight, but I need to address some of the claims leveled at me by McKena.
McKena writes, “say you moved to Mexico, just for an example. Would you learn their language? Or would you expect everyone else to understand you and work around the language barrier?”
If I moved to Mexico, McKena, I would not expect the people in my community to learn English. I would do my best to learn Spanish, and I would hope that those around me would be somewhat tolerant as I struggled with the new language, as I would certainly struggle because I took German in high school. On that note, let’s consider the more likely scenario of me moving to Germany. I’ve had about four years of instruction in that language, but I am far from fluent. German grammar is ridiculous, and very difficult to master, perhaps much like English with its contradictory rules and anomalies. However, I likely would not drown as I worked toward fluency because many Germans speak English, particularly in bigger cities. I consider it a mark of arrogance that most Americans only speak English. If more of us learned a second or third language before graduating from high school, it would make that transition period easier for all kinds of immigrants, as well as enable Americans to travel through other countries and understand other cultures.
You go on to say, “you can’t deny that this country was built by people of European descent, so doesn’t it make sense for the people in power to be European?”
No, it doesn’t. This country was founded by Europeans over 200 years ago. At that time, white people decided they deserved to be in power and that English needed to be the dominant language. So for more than 200 years, white, English-speaking Europeans oppressed every racial or ethnic minority they encountered. For a while, that meant Germans and Irish people, who happen to be white and European. Then it was immigrants from central and Eastern Europe, then Asians. But as Danny pointed out, and as we’ve discussed in class, the founders of this nation were worst to those who were here before white folks. That includes Native Americans and Hispanics. So it really isn’t as though “a whole bunch of Europeans immigrated to India” and “demanded positions of power.” Hispanic people have lived in the territorial United States since before California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas were states. They have become a significant part of the American population, so they have an inherent right to positions of power, just as African Americans have every right to be involved in government. I have no idea why you would think that only European-Americans would deserve to lead this richly diverse nation. That position reflects the kind of arrogance that most of the world currently resents about Americans.
In response to Danny’s response
While I understand what you are saying in this I still have to disagree. I stand by what I said, that it is ridiculous for people to use these statistics as vindication. I know that there are those people in the US that feel that we should not “give” up our land to these immigrants but really it is completely hypocritical. Unless those against it are Native Americans they too came to this nation and took this land from others. Even if their ancestors were a part of the first colony Jamestown they still came here from somewhere else. In most of those cases they were trying to get away from persecution and find a better life. In today’s society these immigrants, in most cases, are trying to do the same thing. These people have no right to use this as a vindication that immigrants are “taking over.”
I also think though that the idea that these immigrants are “stealing” America is a little bit of a stretch. I think that most people are concerned about them taking jobs and they could to some extent fear that the government will be inundated with Hispanics. However, first of all the majority of jobs these people are doing are ones that the average American feels is below them and won’t do them. Also these statistics are talking about legal Hispanic-Americans so it can be assumed that they then have just as much of a right to jobs as the next American. Also if the government turned to having more Hispanics it would be the choice of the people, they would have to be voted there so it would be representative of the people (which is what our government has evolved into). I understand where Danny is coming from but I just have to disagree.
Lindsey Devaney
RE: Andrew and Jason
Ok, so first to Andrew. I know that our bureaucrats are more or less hired in places, or appointed to their positions. Obviously a mail carrier is not elected to bring my magazine subscriptions to me at my house. But I was getting more along the lines that when Caucasians become the minority majority of the country, other races such as Hispanics are going to have that stronger presence here in the U.S. which could sway elections in certain parts of the country. Positions such as senator and representative slots may see more of a Hispanic existence and will be able to change things in our government more than we want. That’s just hypothetical, but still possible. The second part was to Jason. I’m glad you see what I was saying in my post, and I’d have to say I agree with you on the different parts of the country being more or less populated by Hispanics and other races. Obviously places like Spokane don’t have much of a racial difference, and we as a city may still have a Caucasian majority. This may even be the case in entire states. But it can also lean the other way, showing that in cities and states nearer to the border may be more populated by Hispanics. This may actually be the case in some places today. Things are sure to change even more significantly through these next few years leading towards 2050, when it is said that the majority of races will be lost and become a minority majority.
Response to Jarek about Chelsea
I really don’t like the way all the minorities are grouped together and then measured against or population. Individually, Caucasian people will still have the majority; it will stay this way for a while to. I feel this way because with the way Americans live, as it is now, we won’t be able to hold a population of Hispanics as big as Caucasians. I think it would be too hard for the economy and it would end up being to fragile to hold everything. I also do not think Spanish will be the main language anytime soon, even if there are more Hispanics. How long has it taken for African American to get equal rights? We just now have an African American running for the presidency that has a really good change. We had a Hispanic running this time but he really didn’t have a chance, it will probably stay this way for a while. I just think it will take a long time for Hispanics to be recognized like all the other populations because of the way people are. Now your statement about the Senator of Arizona, I think that measure would be a little drastic. I just think the business owners should take responsibility for what they are doing, just because they are hiring illegal immigrants to work for them, which saves them a lot of money; they need to figure out that they will be harming themselves more in the long run. I think they are going to have to figure this out the hard way too because they are more interested in making money and prospering than doing what is right to the nation.
Re: Jarek
Of course you would be the one to reply to my post and be completely against everything that I said. And I am still trying to figure out how you manage to bring sports into most of your posts. But America will never be an “English as the second language” nation. As I said we were founded by English and wrote our constitution in English. It is an English country and the people wanting to live in our country will have to adapt to our ways. I am not saying they have to abandon their culture, but they have to be able to communicate and live in the American lifestyle. If they do not want to do that, we should not let them in to our country. We need to preserve it and keep it American, just as the Founding Fathers wanted it. And even if Spanish is not a hard language to learn, How many Americans do you honestly think are going to want to go to class to learn a new language late in their life just to communicate with people new to our country. None. No one is going to do that. American will stay our language no matter how many foreign citizens we have.
Re: Chelsea
Well yes of course I would respond to one of yours. And of course you have to write back proving me wrong in everything I say. But when mass numbers of foreign born citizens are coming to our country, we will need to do something to cooperate with their heritage. Maybe changing to Spanish as our language is a little drastic, but if half the population is American and the other half is foreign, how will the two communicate? Either when a foreign is granted citizenship, they have to be able to speak English too, or a language derived from both will be created. That is way out there but there needs to be some compromise. One benefit of these foreign citizens coming to America is the diversity. With new cultures, styles and foods will be amazing. People will be able to get everything they want from somewhere distant in their own neighborhood. And you are right, sadly. Not many Americans are going to want to go to a class where they have to learn to communicate with someone new to their country when they have lived their there whole life.
Response to Grace.
“I have no idea why you would think that only European-Americans would deserve to lead this richly diverse nation.” If you read my entire post, you’d see that no one did I say anything to that extent. I actually just pointed out the fact that it makes sense that they do, currently, and that we’re a country of opportunity, where people who work for it, can attain these positions of power. But I guess I was trying to hint at the fact that I don’t think that this new influx of immigrants from other cultures should force us to integrate them into our government based on the color of their skin, rather than their merits and abilities. I mean, as we’ve talked about in class, how colleges and work places have quotas they need to fill to have a certain amount of women and minorities employed or enrolled there. And you know, I’m all for that, really, I am, because a lot of the time I hate that Spokane is so uniformly white and I think a lot of people’s acceptance levels are very hurt by that fact. But why should a perhaps more qualified white man lose out on his opportunity because he is a white man? I mean, its just reverse discrimination and if we’re working to end racism, I think we’re advanced enough to try to do that with causing more discrimination against someone else.
“I consider it a mark of arrogance that most Americans only speak English. If more of us learned a second or third language before graduating from high school, it would make that transition period easier for all kinds of immigrants, as well as enable Americans to travel through other countries and understand other cultures.” I do see the logic in that statement, and I do think knowing more than one language opens all kinds of doors to the individual, but I don’t think that Americans only knowing English is a “mark of arrogance.” And again, this is where my issues with this minority majority lie. You mention how our learning more languages would make the transition period easier for all kinds of immigrants and that would be wonderful, but I don’t think that American citizens should have to do anything to make the immigrants more comfortable. Like you said, Grace, “If I moved to Mexico, McKena, I would not expect the people in my community to learn English.” So, why do you expect Americans to learn their language?
“I have no idea why you would think that only European-Americans would deserve to lead this richly diverse nation. That position reflects the kind of arrogance that most of the world currently resents about Americans.” So, I guess you either didn’t read my entire post, or I didn’t communicate what I was trying to say. I don’t think that we should be an all white country, run only by white people, I mean, yes, I’m white, but my grandfather immigrated over here, so I do acknowledge the importance that immigration has on our country, in every aspect of it. However, I don’t think it’s arrogant, at all, to be a little wary when a country that is, and has been for hundreds of years, predominately white suddenly isn’t anymore.
I’m not trying to say that the world will end and our government will fall or anything, I guess I’m just saying that I understand why some people are unhappy, maybe even a little scared. And I don’t this these feelings, at least for all people, because I know it does for some, come from a place of arrogance, I think its their lack understanding. So, maybe it comes from ignorance. I just found it insulting that you thought I was trying to say that white people and only white people should be in power.
Oh, and I have to make some comments about your second paragraph, and I don’t think that what our ancestors did was right, forcing out the Native Americans and Hispanics who were here, but we’re paying for that still. I mean, nothing can make up for what was done to them centuries ago, but I think it’s obvious that, even generations later, we’re still trying to make up for it. In my Spanish class we were watching a documentary called Border Wars, and there was a debate, between Hispanics I’ll point out, where they were arguing about their right to live here without conforming to our laws because they had been here first. However, another Hispanic, and I wish I could remember her name, made a comment about how wars had been fought over who owned that land, and that the United States had paid money for it, purchasing it and winning it pretty fairly. But, I do think this is kind of a moot point, because I was talking about right now, and the standards of that time are worlds apart for the ones we have now.
Response numero dos to Anthony:
I totally agree with what you are saying, Anthony…immigrants should come here legally. I wasn’t trying to say that illegal immigration is acceptable or that I support it, I was just saying that it is definitely understandable why so many people would want to come here. I don’t think that there is anything wrong with people immigrating here as long as it is done legally. But I also think that we need to make it a heck of a lot easier on the people trying to do it legally, because maybe then we would have less people coming here illegally. The path to becoming a citzen of this country is a screwy one. Even if you are just here on a working visa it is a screwy system! For instance, our business does business with Rahco and there is a man who works there who is from Chile and is here on a working visa. He is here with his wife and young daughter (and she is the cutest little thing in the whole wide world…but that’s beside the point). The point is that his wife and daughter went back to Chile to visit their family down there. Only, when it was time for them to come back to the U.S., they couldn’t because Rahco had come under new ownership, and the poor little Chilan had to do tons of paperwork before they would let his wife and daughter back in the U.S. Long and complicated story short, what was meant to be a 3 week trip, turned into a 3 month trip, all because of stupid paperwork that took forever to go through. See how screwy the system is? Is that right? I don’t think so. The guy is an awesome person, and he has a home, a job, he provides for his family, when they’re sick, he can pay for them, he’s not draining the system…he is doing everything right. But the road to becoming an actual citizen is a long and difficult one. I just don’t think that’s fair. And I don’t remember what my point in telling that story was, but…yeah…we should make it easier for people like my poor little Chilan friend to become citizens the right way.