Winter Break WK #2: “An immigration law test in Arizona”
Froma Harrop
The Providence Journal
December 31, 2007
What would happen if the United States seriously enforced the ban on hiring undocumented workers? We may find out starting Tuesday, when Arizona promises to do it.
The Arizona law is tough. Companies that knowingly employ illegal workers will have their business licenses suspended for a first offense and permanently revoked for the second.
The law clearly sees the workplace – not the state’s 376-mile border with Mexico – as the main front in curbing illegal immigration. As a result, it could very well succeed.
Supporters of open borders predict economic chaos as Arizona companies lose access to cheap labor. Will dishes go unwashed and lawns unmowed? We shall see.
Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano reluctantly signed the law but vows to enforce it. A moderate Democrat, she maintains a close relationship with the governor of Sonora, the Mexican state to her south. She was also the first American governor to ask for National Guard reinforcements along the border.
Immigration happens to be Washington’s responsibility. Federal law already forbids employers to hire undocumented workers. Until very recently, the Bush administration virtually ignored the ban. Whenever anger at this dereliction grew politically problematic, Bush would stage some new military show at the border.
The troop movements provided a nice distraction but seem to have only modestly cut the flow of illegal immigrants. Folks from every continent enter the United States unlawfully through portals far from Mexico. Nearly half of all undocumented workers came here legally but overstayed their visas.
What the fixation on the border does is create unnecessary friction with Latin America. It seems to single out one ethnic group, discomforting even native-born Hispanics who object to illegal immigration. Roughing up poor peasants makes for an ugly visual, as do high fences facing what’s supposed to be a good neighbor.
Without the job magnet, of course, most illegal aliens would simply not come here. That would free law enforcement to go after the bad actors trying to enter. The Mexican border would become a far more peaceful crossing that allows an easy back-and-forth of shoppers, tourists, friends and family members.
The question remains, how essential is illegal labor to America’s prosperity? One thing is clear: The people who want it should not be providing the answers.
The National Journal asked Napolitano about “business community” complaints that Arizona’s law would hurt the economy. Napolitano said that she hears them, but other parts of the “business community” are telling her, “We’re tired of competing against companies that are hiring illegally and therefore don’t have to pay the same wages we pay.”
And there are non-labor concerns. Explosive population growth, fueled in part by illegal immigration, has created environmental challenges throughout the water-short Southwest. On the social side, a massive influx of impoverished people with little English makes the task of providing education and other services that more vexing.
The president does not seem to share these anxieties. As a cheap-labor conservative, Bush’s warm spot for open borders is understandable.
Less explicable are the views of diversity liberals who otherwise despise the man but attribute his policies to a soulful feeling for Mexico. A recent New Yorker article saw Bush’s tolerance of illegal immigration through the prism of his experience as governor of Texas, a border state with deep Hispanic roots. No mention was made of Bush’s long record as a stomper of labor standards wherever they might impair corporate profits.
Back in Arizona, Napolitano is readying implementation of a major new immigration law. While it is not totally to her liking, she sees few alternatives. When it comes to fixing illegal immigration, Washington won’t become functional anytime soon – and Arizona can’t wait.
Finally, someone takes action against illegal immigration in our country. Maybe this ban will prove successful and neighboring states will adopt similar laws. When you really look at the issue, the problem is rooted to businesses that prosper from cheap labor. Honestly, I personally have a problem with people sneaking into our country illegally and taking advantage of the governmental system. It is the taxpayers taking care of these immigrants who only come here for work then send their money down to Mexico. In what way are they helping us? Cheap labor of course, but if we end this I am sure America will find some way to adapt. Before reading this article, I never realized how little the White House has done to halt, if not completely end, illegal immigration. I also never connected this lack of attention on immigration to the fact that our president is the former governor of a state neighboring the source of illegal immigrants. Whether or not this is accurate is probably debatable seeing as how this article seems a little one-sided. I do think however that this new Arizona law is small, but first, step to decreasing the number of illegal immigrants entering our country.
I think that this is a very interesting article. The fact that Arizona State is going to enforce such a tough labor law is a good and a bad thing. The good part about the law is that it will benefit the companies and businesses that play by the rules and don’t hire illegal immigrants. In doing so companies that play by the rules will be more competitive than the companies that are cheating the system and getting their work done at a cheaper rate. The fact that this law is coming into action in Arizona could cause businesses to start making Political Action Committees to give money to the candidates that they like and will change this law. On the other hand, I still don’t think that the United States can support themselves without the work of the illegal immigrants. If we do this we will have to start giving out work visas so we will have workers to do the jobs that we as Americans are “too good for.” Overall I think that the law in Arizona is a good idea. I think that it is somewhat like a pre-season game because it is in just one State that will show what the results will be in the future. It will show the rest of the country what will happen as a result of the law.
I am very curious as to the outcome of this new law put forth by Arizona… it would be one thing if it was somewhere like Alaska instigating this new “rule” where the immigrant community isn’t exactly “surging;” but this is Arizona, a state with a “376-mile border with Mexico.” I think that Governor Napolitano is making a smart decision here, because after all, why do the majority of immigrants (more specifically Spanish-speaking immigrants) cross the border in the first place? For work. And by enforcing this rule in the work place, this attempt to curb illegal immigration will hopefully be more effective than anything else. That is, if it is actually and truly ENFORCED.
Personally, I think that other states should begin taking similar actions. Unfortunately, the theory that our country’s prosperity will suffer will probably become truth. Immigrants do too many blue-collar, service jobs that all Americans, even the dirt-poor, desperately in need of money Americans, will never undertake. Apparently, picking fruit and cleaning hotel rooms is below us all.
Some may view this new rule as harsh, including our conservative, FUBAR President; however, I feel it’s the right choice. Trying to increase security along the border may prove effective temporarily, but it doesn’t ultimately get the job done. Illegal persons will just find another way to get in… therefore, crunching down on their “source”, the workplace, hopefully will yield a result for the better. Until we can establish an efficient way to bring these people into this country legally, where they pay taxes, etc, and are contributing members of society, we DO need to put our fist down and say enough is enough.
One of my brother’s friends who just moved to Arizona came home over break and this was one of the things he was telling us about. In his words, the illegal aliens were very easy to pick out. One of the women who works with his mother, speaks only one word of English; America, which also happens to be her new name. I’m not sure how much of an expert he is on this issue, but he said people were just starting to leave, because if this law passes, it will almost be more trouble than its worth, trying to get a job in America.
In class we talked about the possibility of these immigrants being granted citizenship. If this law is passed I wonder how immigration, illegal or otherwise will be affected. Without the promise of work, I wonder if anyone will even bother, because the process of becoming a citizen is so long and difficult.
I definitely support this decision, because I feel these illegals are taking away American jobs and American money, but you have to wonder what this potential loss of cheap labor will do to our economy. Americans are notoriously lazy, and I wonder how many of us will be willing to do jobs the immigrants previously held. And how will the employers react? It won’t necessarily be cheap labor anymore because they won’t be able to get away with paying under minimum wage as easily.
It’s kind of nice to see that people are taking matters into their own hands and are adapting to situations in their states. This article was very informational and I’m excited to see how this works. In response to McKena I think that if Arizona loses the cheap labor then the business competition will increase. All businesses will have to hire citizens and some businesses will lose money and some will gain. Honestly, I like the thought of cheap labor. I wouldn’t mind helping out a poor little Mexican family…most of you heard my holiday song “Illegal Alien.” You know where I stand. If this really carries out then I think that the other states are going to get floods of illegal workers. This could result in other states applying the same law that Arizona is enforcing. I think that this could potentially turn into a domino effect around the southern states. After this happens many Mexicans may give p coming into the states. Citizenship is so difficult to achieve they may give up. They are also at a disadvantage because they have little experience in business even when they do have citizenship. If Mexicans are going to come here they should come early so they can become educated for a more promising future. This new law should be interesting.
This is was a very interesting article on a topic that I have not heard anything about. I really hope Arizona enforces this law and stays true to it. Illegal Immigrants do take jobs away from American citizens. I am really curious to see if the businesses will not accept the immigrants. Usually they are better, harder workers so I wonder if Americans will still try to hire them, but keep them pretty much hidden. Businesses may take a turn for the worst in Arizona, therefore changing the law. Immigration will not stop, or calm down, because Mexicans believe that America is a new beginning. If they can not work in Arizona they will move to another state. They will find a way to beat the system, everyone seems to do that these days. There is always a way to outsmart the authority and somehow they will find a way to do it and this law will mean nothing and the border will still be chaotic. The African Americans beat the system in the 1960’s by getting their rights granted to them. They had to go through a lot and came upon a lot of adversity, but it granted them freedom and now today they have the American way of life. Mexicans will beat the system it is a matter of time, but it will happen. America may as well realize this now, before going through with new laws and provisions to keep them out. They will be part of the country so if you grant them what they want, it will cost less and not put both our countries through this stage.
I don’t really get this. I thought this law was already in place and being ignored at the federal level. It doesn’t seem to me that Arizona should be making another law; they should just try enforcing the original one or something if they want some results. It does seem like the right step to be taking if people want to get rid of illegal immigration. I personally am not sure how I really feel on the subject. I’m definitely not for straight out putting more restrictions on the borders, because that always tenses up relationships with not only the governments, but the people of other countries. Since I realize that my opinion on this matter is not going to affect how this law is enforced or almost any immigration matter, I can only hope that the law will be enacted in a peaceful manner that will not affect our relationship with any other country that we may need help from in the near or distant future. I thought it was a little bit funny when I noticed that the author mentioned how Bush used to be a “stomper of labor standards wherever they might impair corporate profits.” It kind of put him into perspective for me, at least on this issue. Anyway, my connection for this article is going to be political parties, because the author mentions how the liberals seem to defy the man for most matters, except his tolerance on immigration. This has to do with parties because liberals are usually democrats although because of the dealignment–The gradual disengagement of people and politicians from the parties, as seen in part by shrinking party identification—some democrats, like the Arizona governor mentioned in the article today who is apparently a democrat yet supports this new law think quite strongly it seems.
Immigration has come up several times already…but this is the first time I’ve read an article where someone was ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING. We can all sit here and disagree on our view of the topic, which we all do, but Arizona is actually doing something. I think that implementing this law will be a good example for other states to follow; it will be very good for other states to see the productivity of cracking down on a law. If we are going to allow open borders, then we need to stop whining; if we are don’t want to give our jobs and money up, then we ALL need to do something like this.
When corporate companies complain about the inequalities in competition between those with illegal immigrants and those without, I wonder if they really think about what they are saying. I mean if we enforce laws strictly, as Arizona is supposed to start doing, then the competition will increase with more Americans having jobs and salaries that are higher. I just feel like if we do as we say we want, it can only help us.
Finally, if the aliens want work here in the U.S. so bad, they can do it the legal way with visas. It’s not like we make it impossible for them to come!
Ok, first I would like to address the issue of lessening the the illegal immigrants and the effects on the workplace. I personally fully agree with and support the new law in Arizona, because it is something new that seems like it would be really extremely effective. If businesses cannot hire illegal immigrants, a major portion of the draw towards America will be immediately diminished. And that is a good thing. If you want to come here, do it right. We do not need illegal immigrants leeching every benefit that they can out of the real citizens. And that may seem like I am being hard about it and uncaring, but I think that that is how it should be.
Now, as to the effects on the workplace and the economy, I think that business owners who formerly employed illegal immigrants must suck it up and pay Americans for their work. While there are many immigrants who need the work, unmentioned go the many Americans who are the working (or not working) poor. These people who are actual citizens of this country cannot often get jobs and are living in slums where they cannot, often no matter how hard they try, rise above where they are in life. I think that this law is an excellent way to employ more of the American people.
~Liz
Reply to Caitlin:
While it’s true that this law is taking some action it’s doing so in one of the least patrolled areas of the border — Arizona. If you compare photos of the difference between the “wall” in Arizona (that looks like more a fence you might find in my ghetto backyard) and the wall in say California (think Berlin wall) you’ll find a harsh contrast between the security to keep illegals out of each state. This law in Arizona hopefully will set the standard for action being taken in states with more lax laws concerning immigrants doing illegal work. If Washington could adopt such a law it would make a huge difference in our agricultural businesses, but is that something we’d want?
You brought up how strange it is that George W. Bush has done little to control the flow of illegal immigrants and their work but you have to look at the probable outcome of trying to control such a large hidden population. When trying to enforce laws dealing with upwards of 20 million illegals (it’s hard to get a good estimate on how many illegal immigrants there actually are) you have to take into account the possible backlash of enacting these laws. As we’ve learned in class soon Hispanic’s will achieve a minority majority and then I think we’ll really start to see changes in the enforcement of illegal immigration.
I am replying to Caitlin’s article. Mostly I disagree with pretty much all of her article unfortunately. I think illegal immigrants are bad because they sneak into our country and so on. But we need those illegal immigrants; they are a major part of our economy. Without their cheap labor, we probably won’t have some of the stuff we always have like fruits and vegetables. I believe we have talked about this in class also how we are so dependent on them because of their cheap labor. Why pay and American minimum wage when you could pay an illegal immigrant less than minimum wage and get harder work out of them. That is just America for you. It’s a bad way to think of it but that is the truth. It is good, like Caitlin said, to finally be getting some sort of ban on illegal immigration, but when Arizona and its surrounding states see the effects of this new action, I don’t think any other state will follow it, and I bet that Arizona gets rid of it. One thing I could not find and would like to know is when is this new immigration law going into effect? I would really like to track it and see how it works out.
Jordan makes a good point. We express our views about immigration, but we never do anything about it. Now here comes Arizona threatening companies that “knowingly employ illegal workers will have their business licenses suspended for a first offense and permanently revoked for the second.” Arizona is actually doing something instead of complaining. Personally I do not know how I feel about immigration. I understand why they sneak into our country because they are looking for a better life, but at the same time it is not fair for illegal immigrants to get benefits from our government when legal immigrants have to wait and spend a lot of money to become a citizen of the United States. However I agree with everyone’s opinion about cheap labor. If we get rid of the illegal immigrants, who is going to do the little jobs? Like Ian said, we as Americans are “too good” to do these petty little jobs. As much cheap labor benefits us, I do believe that this law will make business practices fair. If illegal immigrants are replaced by Americans, then businesses have to make decent wages instead of cheating us with any wage they want. There are benefits to this law but will it actually be enforced? If Washington DC ignored their ban of hiring illegal immigrants, Arizona is as capable of doing the same thing. We will just have to wait and see how serious Arizona is about their new law.
Ridiculous
Liz-
You discussed in your second paragraph how American employers should “suck it up and pay Americans for their work” however, you know that employers love paying the minimum amount only because it saves them money. Well, reality check I guess, men are selfish and will fight this law all the way to the grave. Personally I would rather like to watch how Janet Napolitano’s rankings drop drastically and even see Arizona’s next gubernatorial race. Ten to one says she’s gone. This is because our country—even within states—is run by the elite. We have the pluralist and hyper-pluralist theories trying to gain attention; however, if we all look deeply into the heart of America, not a single thing have changed since the Gilded Age of the late 1800s. The more money, the more power, period. Second of all you brought up the point that enforcing this law would only increase the employment of American people. News flash, Americans also sit on their butts all day and watch Oprah and gain welfare benefits. Are you going to get all up in arms at them too? Why not? That’s ridiculous, Americans are willing to pay for their own kind to sit and watch Oprah and eat potato chips that do nothing for society rather than pay for people who work at jobs that Americans think they are too good for. Why do you think immigrants take the dish washer jobs? Americans do not want them! We have this high standard of living here in America, and “Apparently, picking fruit and cleaning hotel rooms is below us all.” (I couldn’t of said it better myself Chelsea Jones). Ridiculous.
Danny Porter
Reponse to Cody Castor:
Oh Cody. Yes illegals provide cheap labor for all those fruits and vegetables that no one else would pick, they also provide a serious drain on dozens on government funds such as welfare, healthcare (after all, if an illegal immigrant cut themselves picking an artichoke we’d want them to have the best medical treatment possible) and that whole — if they produce a child whilst picking all those fruits and vegetables in the United States their offspring are automatic citizens and they’re [the parents] more likely to be able to stay indefinitely. Also, all that money that we have for in-state tutition is up for grabs for illegals so they might get a proper education here in the great United States of America.
Sure we’ve learned that they provide cheap labor for tasks most bums on the streets wouldn’t perform but they also take away far more than they give. Think about it, if someone is making $8.07 or whatever minimum wage is since the first and is paying taxes including all those social security taxes we’ll never see a penny of they’re probably making about the same (perhaps this is a broad generalization) as an illegal who leeches onto the benefits of living in America, pays no taxes and reaps all the benefits that we work so hard for $8.07 an hour for. I think immigration is a HUGE issue and something that is affecting everyone whether they realize it or not and needs to be dealt with immediately by not only border states such as Arizona but states like Washington that benefit from illegal labor and those who choose to over-stay their work visas they obtain legally.
Reply to Danny, Liz and others.
First off, I would like to state that I agree with what Danny said about the Gilded Age. How the elite even in this time still run the country. I don’t know if Danny is going to be right about Janet Napolitano not winning in the next gubernatorial race. I think that if the law is successful then she will get appreciation from the working class. If it fails she will most likely not get any appreciation from the big companies and elites. If this happens then she will be out of a job.
Now for what Liz said. I understand what you are trying to get at, if the law passes then businesses and companies will have to pay Americans and any citizen that they hire minimum wage and they won’t be able to get away with underpaying them. Now you got to understand that Danny is right when it comes to the fact that managers don’t pay minimum wage because it saves them money.
For my own opinion I think that this law is something that should be enforced throughout the country. Governor Napolitano is on the right track and is setting the stepping stones for the reset of the country to follow. Look at the fact that this law will open up tons of jobs. The best part of this is the fact that most of these are able to be done without a high school diploma or college degree. There are about 20 million illegal aliens’ right. That means there would be about 20 or so million jobs open for people like homeless who don’t have a job. This could help them and even lower the poverty level in America. This is an extreme but a possible outcome.
In reply to what Danny had said, I really have to agree with a lot of what he was saying. First of all, whether we like it or not, our country is generally run by the elites. Think about it, it takes millions of dollars to win any sort of elected government position so it would seem that only those who have the money are likely to win any power in our government. Consequently, those people do like to keep the money they have and when it comes to, a lot but not all, companies they generally like to keep that money, which means paying minimum wage and in this case hiring illegal immigrants.
I also agree with Danny though that I don’t think that this would necessarily lead to more America jobs. The jobs have always been there, and obviously Americans have not taken them. Americans too much of the time think that they are too good for washing dishes or picking fruit, and so the immigrants are more than happy to take them, and at a much lower wage.
In my own opinion, this law fascinates me. It would seem to me that this law is just punishing the workplaces, not the illegal aliens working there. This kind of confuses me because then, really, are you doing anything to stop illegal immigration? Personally, I would think not. I don’t even think the law says anything about deporting those illegal workers either. So it would seem to me that those aliens would just move on to another source of work in America, rather than going back to wherever they came from. To add to that, if you shut down those businesses, then you would end up with more lost American jobs too. It just doesn’t all quite add up if you ask me.
Lindsey Devaney
I can see where Cody is going with his argument and understand his thinking, but I’m siding with Emily on this one. Yes, illegal immigrants are a really big part of our economy because of the work they do for the little amounts of pay. But as Emily said, with all this they are doing for our economy they are also taking a lot away like welfare and Medicare funds from those of us who are actually citizens of the United States. There is also that argument about them only having jobs that no one else would want. In my opinion if there were no illegal immigrants taking up those spots then someone would take the job just because it is something that needs to be done in order for things to work well in our country. I also agree with Emily her statement about illegal immigrants not paying any type of tax, such as the social security taxes that are deducted out of all out paychecks. Sure the illegal immigrants are helping our economy by working for little pay, but they are hurting us even more by taking funds that are not rightfully theirs. – Matt Powles
This article was very interesting and I hope you post a follow up article. I want to see how this turns out. It has been getting annoying when people are always complaining about immigration problems and not doing anything about it. This will finally start the process of slowing down illegal immigration. I completely agree with Chelsea that it’s a smart choice for there Governor to do because of the states location in relation to Mexico; its right there, so that’s one of the first states they are going to try and find work. Its totally true that if the people who are coming to America for the “better life” but they cannot find any work because they are not documented then most people will be more hesitant to come or just not come at all. Because that is basically the main reason for illegal immigration is to find a better life which requires a job that pays well. So if that opportunity was taken away from them it would put a huge halt on illegal immigration. I liked the part of the article that talked about the other impacts of this law in regards to the economy. And as I was reading through the first part I thought ya this could have a bad impact on their economy. But as I read further it mentioned how the businesses that were employing illegal immigrants would be hurt but its really true that those companies have an unfair advantage over other businesses that have to pay higher wages to American workers. So I just about think that this law is great regardless of the economic impact within reason of coarse.
It’s interesting to see that somebody in our country is actually acting out against illegal immigration. Actually, I hope the idea spreads to those around Napolitano and the other state Governors presiding in the states bordering Mexico. With as much as Bush has only thrown National Guard down to help out, it’s weird to see that Bush is going to let this happen. But I suppose that if the vote is passed by those who feel it necessary, then what can Bush really do other than let it happen. I have to agree with Ian in that this will have its ups and downs, especially with other businesses not having to put up and compete with those employing immigrants at a cheaper rate. I really think this will be that start of people and states starting to deal with their personal immigration problems, which should work into an overall thing, one would think. But we will have to wait and see how effective Gov. Napolitano is with the current situation. Of course it’s always possible that with our new President being sworn in a year from now, those things could change around a lot quicker than we are thinking. Another outcome could be from Bush trying to enforce what he can before he has to leave office, which could make some differences.
Reply to Liz:
Although, I agree with Liz that this new law in Arizona is going to be very effective, I strongly believe that it is going to do more harm then good for both immigrants, and the economy of Arizona. Liz stated:” If you want to come here, do it right.” This, in an ideal world would be a very practical statement. However, the illegal immigrants who are pouring into Arizona from Mexico do not just want to be here, they need to be. They cross the border illegally in search for work, because they are past the point of ultimate desperation and poverty, and I can sympathize their motives. I think that if any one of us was in their situation, we would do the same thing, illegal or not. Another thing is that there is going to be a huge hole in the middle of the Arizona workforce. While we have millions of Americans living off of welfare (not saying that’s a bad thing), these immigrants want to work, instead of having a government work for them. The American ego is too big to accommodate the jobs that will be left empty by this law. Why spend 10 hours a day picking berries in the hot sun, if you can just have financial aid from the government? There is no doubt in my mind that this law will be effective, but I’m not sure we are going to like the results of our actions.
Response
I think this was law being passed was good thing because like Jordon said someone is actually doing something. Even if it doesn’t work, I believe it is a step in the right direction because we now have a little guinea pig. We can stop arguing about what the consequences will be because we are actually able to watch can happen. And if it turns out that things go bad then it won’t mess up the whole country. Arizona is doing us a favor by letting our federal government take a peak into Door 1 of the future. After all is said in done in Arizona, my hopes are high that Congress will be able to make a better decision for the rest of us. Although, Arizona’s new law could be bad for its neighboring states because “this could potentially turn into a domino effect around the southern states,” as Tiara put it. This is because “if they can not work in Arizona they will move to another state. They will find a way to beat the system,” as Jarek states in his post. And finally, I agree with Danny’s accusation that it would not create more American jobs. Our own people, the ones living off the welfare system, are more of a problem than the illegals. This is because illegal immigrants actually want to work.
Reply to Hilary: I very much agree with what you are saying. This new law will be effective but will cause many problems. It will be tough to find workers because not many Americans like to do the dirty work. They are too caught up with the high-life and do not want to work in a field picking berries or mowing a lawn for a living. The immigrants will also have it tough. They have lived their life trying to get into our country. Once they are here they get a job and send money back to their family in Mexico or if their family came with them, they use the money to support them. Now all the immigrants that are illegally in America will have to find something else to do. Most likely, since the law only applies in Arizona, they will travel to another state and find work. It will be tough but they are dedicated to make their lives better. Unlike most Americans they will work hard and do anything to make money, not sit back and gain money from the government. Arizona will go through problems trying to hire Americans into the jobs that immigrants had. This law should prevent newcomers but will also damage the Arizona economy. I do not think this new law is a good idea because of all the problems it will cause while hopefully eliminating one.